Guest: Dr. Uwe Brückner
Our guest is a television journalist, filmmaker and media scientist. Since 2018, he has been the Section Spokesperson for Television Journalism of the German Academy for Television, a founding member of the Bavarian Academy for Television and Chairman of the International Press Club Munich.
Brückner received his PhD in media studies from Filmuniversität Babelsberg Konrad Wolf in 2018 with a thesis on the credibility of business TV shows.
According to a survey by the German Journalists' Association, around 50 percent of freelance journalists are making such substantial losses this year that they can no longer make a living. Every third freelancer in the writing guild is currently not receiving any assignments. Among photojournalists, every second one is without income. An end to this development is not foreseeable in the old system.
In this episode, we talk about how Gradido can significantly improve the situation of journalists as "guardians of democracy" and secure press freedom. [54:25]
Transcript ( automatically translated )
[00:00:00] Absolute neutrality is our professional badge of honor. [00:00:09] We are also constitutionally protected. [00:00:12] We also have a right that we get information because we are already alliston. [00:00:22] Welcome to the Gradido Podcast today always the hot topic, [00:00:28] the German media landscape signs of Corona. [00:00:34] Our guest is a television journalist he is a filmmaker and media scholar. [00:00:40] Best time 2018 section spokesperson for television journalism of the German Academy of Television. [00:00:48] Founding member of the Bavarian Academy for Television as well as chairman of the Munich International Press Club. [00:00:57] Uwe Brückner received his doctorate in 2018. [00:01:02] At the Film University Babelsberg Konrad Wolf in the department of media studies to dr phil. [00:01:10] With a thesis on the credibility of business TV broadcasting. [00:01:16] Very welcome doctor Uwe Brückner the March what I thank you for this red carpet on the one hand and I look forward to the discussion. [00:01:25] Yes and from my side also very welcome from Gradido Academy dear Mr. Brückner. [00:01:32] According to a survey by the German Journalists Association, about 50% write. [00:01:40] Of freelance journalists this year such significant losses that they can no longer make a living, [00:01:48] What is your assessment of the current situation of your colleagues, Dr Brückner? [00:01:58] So the situation is dramatic as I said before I distinguish between those journalists who are freelance on the road we are more and more. [00:02:10] And their already all tables activity is going towards hard times in times where press conferences are canceled where online communication is where more and more companies also or associations on their own. [00:02:25] Emotions channels set there it needs a regulator a moderating and researching journalists rather less. [00:02:34] it's just one phase the other one has been going on for a long time already ten years ago the so called new market collapsed 20.10 and 1 more, [00:02:45] The Berlin media scientist Röper speaks of a wave of concentration among publishing houses. [00:02:54] Poli Monopoly that means less and less regional media are independent they are summarized like alliances in the publishing industry [00:03:05] Central editorial offices in cities are commonplace Smaller units that perhaps have more staff and a special closeness to the people there. [00:03:14] So the concentration is seen in newspaper publishing. [00:03:19] is to be seen in the radio in the broadcasting enough in the newspaper report therefore shave because more than half of all full-time say already alliston the majority from the journalism live work just for [00:03:34] Newspaper publishers that's still so the newspaper rules they're also trying to get a foothold online. [00:03:41] How many are there in this area, Doctor Brückner, so if you now take the methodology of Weischenberg, then there are 125,000 people who are full-time journalists. [00:03:54] or earn their predominant added value their money with the fanaticism there are then also moderators and moderators there are international methodical there fall out there also press spokesmen fall out [00:04:08] and from this 124.000 about there are a little bit more than half working at print media houses. [00:04:18] Now it is so that the wave of dismissals is not yet statistically reflected because just the motive of the winter help of the Corona help of the promotion help certain inevitably kites still delayed. [00:04:32] It will come to a clear cut we here in the south of the republic already see that quite vehemently behind the scenes, [00:04:40] another big newspaper weddings is being worked on, which will be there in one fell swoop times 80 journalists and 120 printers. [00:04:48] That is also part of it, this side of the topicality, yes, it no longer needs it. [00:04:53] So we have to face another statistically ascertainable wave in newspaper journalism and we have long noticed in the private media as well as in the television sector that the permanent staff. [00:05:08] And maybe it's even little of those in the private sector. [00:05:14] There's nothing going on there too, so every third freelancer of the writing guild doesn't get any assignments according to our information among the photojournalists every second one. [00:05:29] Without income is then an end of this sad development according to their opinion foreseeable. [00:05:36] There are two tendencies answer one the end is not foreseeable it will intensify because, [00:05:46] through Corona have very very many communication center, [00:05:50] and press offices and public relations officers have learned and been, [00:05:57] to provide the media with their own material, not only press photos, press releases, but also a video statement, which is wonderful in the online times, [00:06:10] Moving image is there small advantage short crisp moving image and that is now part of the job of the press offices themselves. [00:06:19] There used to be a lot of good professionals who went on location, looked for the light, looked for the best sound and then did their classic reporter report reporter job, which is no longer needed for this. [00:06:35] What's worse is that many of the players in public opinion have created their own media. [00:06:42] It's not only the industry that's doing it smart Audi TV bmw.tv it's also associations vdk-tv city church fcbayern.tv fcbayern.tv there says the Hamburg sports club for me very surprising you know we are not a sports club [00:06:58] we sees a transmitter that meant really we are a medium we transport luck success for our sponsors a beautiful sort audience a target group, [00:07:09] a target audience yes with emotions, [00:07:12] so these are the tendencies that on the one hand fire from the outside this situation of unemployment in journalism. [00:07:20] But there are also tendencies or reactions that move the journalists themselves. [00:07:26] Of course we also notice this with our members in the international press club in Munich, we are about 1000 members. [00:07:34] we are still a very young club you are the oldest press club in Germany and the largest yes with 70 years the oldest and am but the youngest from the age average, [00:07:41] we are not a club of the old men we are very young because we have taken the 300 members also to us the new generation already alliston in Bavaria. [00:07:49] We have from under our roof in the first German Blogger Club founded where also private people, [00:07:56] who influence the formation of opinion, who want to say something and have something to say and we want to teach them journalistic criteria. [00:08:04] from their statement also bring across why such a private person does not behave like a professional also two sources principle [00:08:11] Evidence Evidence where did I hear it as it is my opinion or is that now general information and also separation of course the separation of advertising and of economic interests or the influence then at least make visible. [00:08:26] About such things have now also been adopted nationwide by the other blogger clubs are not the only ones meanwhile. [00:08:33] And there comes now this second point to the effect the journalists themselves see that they. [00:08:40] They have to learn to visualize themselves. [00:08:46] So why not with the iPhone down pin and a head there you can already go live on Facebook and elsewhere. [00:08:54] Why not record a reasonable sound with a lapel mic in 23 conversations for the internet? [00:09:01] so now they learn to watch and listen and record instead of writing and on the other hand they also notice the IPR, [00:09:09] still has an increasing need for journalistic people who already bring a bit of a toolkit, [00:09:16] but then no longer the things that the common good demands and it reader interest the relevant things that also determine all our lives but that then goes around [00:09:26] around food to and benefits of products or of experienced so those are then other masters that you no no no no critical research anymore but come from a business yes, [00:09:39] almost exclusively positive messages it's all about image. [00:09:43] So yes, of course, criticism has now been discovered, there are companies that research with their customers, that listen to what the customer wants and what the customer doesn't want, and that's how customer farming works. [00:09:57] Then he also goes to answer the questions they are taken important so product developments and put customers along there is no longer at least not in the public perception, [00:10:07] and there criticism is also bred but basically also these critics are finely selected, [00:10:12] understand grasping the state aids many journalists. [00:10:18] Yeah don't have the financial reserves at all what's their impression. [00:10:26] They don't use state funds, we notice it in the letters that the members of the press club write to us. [00:10:36] There we have quite shocking insights into the situation, there is also the relief organization here in Bavaria. [00:10:43] there is under full load in addition it comes also the few associations the non-profit on the way are like the press club itself we live from events thus our club also itself [00:10:54] now shows your strength by the loyalty and by being involved when you start a fundraiser [00:11:01] Our members made it very clear how important the Press Club is to them and how important this neutral voice is to them, this platform where we think ahead among ourselves. [00:11:13] Yes Bernd. [00:11:17] What can the natural economy of life what can Gradido contribute to the good of the media landscape. [00:11:28] Yes of course we were wondering how would such a. [00:11:37] virus pandemic, [00:11:39] if just you were already there so with all these lockdowns and so on like would have I have to now first would have then we can go into the future they could have caught that. [00:11:51] Aldi problems so what you now also address has Doctor Brückner that just yes a large part of the journalists. [00:12:00] Their task is to do something for the common good. [00:12:05] To be thwarted so that they simply can't do their job or if they do it, I think that's great. [00:12:14] if they're going to block long and engage in different ways and then hopefully journalistically well prepared information, [00:12:25] then also make it available to the general public, [00:12:28] but when I hear 125,000 journalists then I say well 125,000 blog. [00:12:38] Can't really look at or they would have to be very special then also always means you should look for your niche and so on, [00:12:48] but whether the niche then in the old system then the journalists could approximately that is I think a completely different question, [00:12:55] and if you now from the model Gradido there's yes the money creation is here by. [00:13:02] Performance for the common good generates new money and economic model or economic system with its own currency means that everyone has the right. [00:13:16] To contribute to the community with one's gifts, so with a list like this it is very clear what the gifts are. [00:13:26] This right to contribute is connected to what we call an active basic income that means that you contribute to the community with what you decide to do, [00:13:40] you get your active basic income and now that has several advantages, [00:13:45] the first father is clear so the people are first of all provided for so whether they work in their profession now all journalists can practically continue their good work is important that I am slowed down that they do that, [00:13:58] one thing is that if you have a profession, it is also a vocation, which means you want to do that and on the other hand, [00:14:07] it is at the same time also a breadwinning, so you also need money to live and exactly these two things are already connected with the active basic income and now there is a third very important factor. [00:14:21] So that even in such emergency situations that we have to go through at the moment worldwide, [00:14:29] it's about being spurred on to do your best, so it means, [00:14:35] if I like to do something and I'm allowed to bring it into the community and I do it more and more often then I'm getting better and better so that's what's happening now. [00:14:43] someone who is allowed to do his job anyway sometimes does in a journalist who is allowed to do his job he gets better and better normally because he just, [00:14:55] doing his job and gaining experience and so on. [00:15:00] And that's what can be guaranteed by an active basic income in connection with this idea of unconditional participation, [00:15:09] then it's not a bad thing if it's now about blame on bloggers I say now casually and first of all for a regional area blocks where [00:15:19] according to conventional economics maybe no financial background would stand there [00:15:25] from the point of view of active basic income he would definitely get such an active basic income could survive no matter how long this crisis goes on now. [00:15:35] Dr Brückner in would an active basic income also be beneficial for journalists for media makers could you imagine that. [00:15:48] Of course the hunt for the story yes is also spurred on by appropriate status are form of fees or salary. [00:15:58] Kleist that works out for leadership positions it is demanded well beyond the 8 hours of work. [00:16:06] With it people finance their house or their family or times on vacation it is still. [00:16:12] I see great need really important need in the local area. [00:16:17] I had started at RTL television making so very early when the RTLplus starts that was in the 80s. [00:16:23] Mama national and I did that for ten years and I was in all sorts of countries on the road as well. [00:16:28] But in close up they get other needs they have other things to report they have very fine research to do. [00:16:35] I know that certain crusts have formed, like in Bonn in the old years or in Berlin, but there is little to be found already everything must there's the daily newspapers. [00:16:45] Maybe he has a reporter for half a district who also takes the photos and that's it. [00:16:52] But what's actually played where the corruption takes hold. [00:16:55] With such special purpose associations or with Diakonie and paritätischen it is now unfortunately also piece by piece high or also with the churches in Altbayern we are very well connected with very important also church organization. [00:17:08] But all these quiet machinations that are going on in secret from a public eye. [00:17:15] They need a closer illumination or at the beginning only ask questions, because you don't have to have studied that. [00:17:27] So the journalistic or moderating mediator and source of information is not there yet, there would be a need for the common good Shona to act cunningly clear must also be said. [00:17:41] The absolute neutrality is our professional badge of honor, we are also constitutionally protected. [00:17:50] We also have a right that we get information because we are already alliston learned already alliston who identify themselves and who are committed to that, [00:18:01] who need hen things and urgently in the local area for the common good for the block of the municipality or the county or a citizenry or a municipal initiative of a Gradido initiative locally or in the region. [00:18:15] And citizens you have an opinion want to express themselves may but then as commentators but as a researcher and classic journalists would have to make there also a small Gradido academy on the spot I have given myself maybe school newspaper seminars [00:18:31] then it must go the little ones must now know where the Zerfass on what they must pay attention in such a democracy, [00:18:38] and the journey goes Bernd it's about a long term solid life and work basis. [00:18:45] Absolutely, so what I really liked again or I'm very interested in what you just said Doctor Brückner in the near, [00:18:55] We are always looking for possibilities or people ask how I can contribute to the community and so on and they say that journalists are needed for the local area, [00:19:09] there is also the question of who is going to pay for it in the old system because these are then smaller interest groups and, [00:19:18] this can be done permanently through this offer of unconditional participation, e.g. journalists in the local area can also work for the first time would be paid for it. [00:19:29] Gradido functions by the way completely without taxes that is thus if the means against now here exchange Gradido alias 1000 € in the month quasi on the hand, [00:19:39] without having to pay taxes and health insurance and such, then it's already a super base, [00:19:47] and you can continue without having to prove Esgrus. [00:19:52] Yes, take orders so once the basis is there my we can also as freelancers, [00:19:59] if it runs first then the next order is not so difficult to get because then you are present you are seen there and then someone comes jacket but you have done great you can maybe do it for me. [00:20:12] And there is just this, [00:20:15] basic income in the form of an active basic income which promotes and challenges and helps people in their profession or in what they like to do to really reach a very high level, [00:20:28] a super basis which then also creates a permanent income for a permanent profession. [00:20:38] Can I support the active seniors in here in the south? [00:20:42] are engaged in journalism for the common good there are an unbelievable number of journalists here you can't just drop the pen so you have to - that's not possible. [00:20:51] and in the, [00:20:52] bring things to light and are also then approached or or provides with information times when you are familiar when you are known because you [00:21:04] she was a journalist nonprofit on the road that you notice that you see then. [00:21:10] And they have blogs with us in Michi live now in the district of Pfaffenhofen. [00:21:15] nature and some local place of it so that works great active seniors are now sometimes only paid if you have a mandate some then actually go like [00:21:26] like interim managers lead times yes but most do it for no money. [00:21:33] Helping is a lot. [00:21:39] From Uwe Brückner also the word basket pulling Bernd. [00:21:46] Would there be a corruption in the system Gradido at all still in all areas also. [00:21:55] In the media sector we are dealing with corruption what would change or what would make it harder for corruption to spread. [00:22:08] So of course there will be interests that will express themselves in terms of corruption or lobbying or whatever then. [00:22:19] Now it's just that the moment we are independent and free that is where we are not dependent. [00:22:29] Also corruption or actually any form of crime will not take hold like that, [00:22:36] I'm provided for anyway then there has to be some criminal energy added to it be it corruption or also in other criminal things [00:22:45] to motivate me to do something now, so the corrupt are not necessarily evil, but they may follow a certain logic, [00:22:55] part of the system yes there is of course then also less poverty under circumstances with Gradido and poverty leads also very often to. [00:23:04] basket out behavior exactly out there basically so we have started so Gradido as a way to worldwide prosperity and peace in harmony with nature that means there is. [00:23:16] When Gradido is introduced worldwide after. [00:23:19] The Gradido model according to the theory in any case no more poverty at all so all people reach a reasonable healthy, [00:23:28] prosperity and of course with that you can no longer force people to do things that they might otherwise do when they're in need. [00:23:39] I didn't if I could comment on that. [00:23:42] I see a step one a salami model I don't think you can the financial system. [00:23:52] That you can change the political system into you can change the culture of how we treat each other, [00:23:59] despite these terrible Corona developments and despite this climate amplifier yes the there is an incredible amount of pressure on the political actors and on the citizens have to decide somewhere I don't think that overnight and also not without considerable resistance. [00:24:17] Even if in thoroughly democratically cultivated democracy and citizen republics. [00:24:25] That's basically where I think you now have to find a test martwe would almost say a test region. [00:24:34] Even there there would not be to 100% I mean a gradido financial landscape, [00:24:40] that will probably also be necessary to go a second way alternatively as well as the regional currencies there's already in Hallertauer or the Chiemgauer. [00:24:51] There are regions that are suddenly open for it, I'll just mention Freiburg. [00:24:56] In the south of the republic there they have an enlightened region that are the citizens in many small initiatives already long ago on the Gradido thought yes try maybe only the vehicle and it could fit quite well. [00:25:11] Or Pfaffenhofen an der Ilm if you where I live that is an incredibly enlightened modern society with activities from the citizenry, [00:25:21] it needs of course a journalistic critical observation accompaniment. [00:25:28] Because I think that with the left 234 clans or internet groups would jump on it and would write Gedenk gradido on their flags and hüttenthaler Gradido is great for. [00:25:43] Group X group right I want to speak now for you of colors or of old yesterdays so. [00:25:49] There is also the danger that you lose the respectability then because we Gradido was caught and vaulted by other Jesus on everyone. [00:25:57] But that is an exciting task for the journalists now to see or also to accompany where happens now the way forward such ideas like Gradido, [00:26:09] or it was part I also like the unconditional participation that will be able to fire us on the fallow meadow many people no longer know what community is like they sit at home and twiddle their thumbs. [00:26:24] There you can active there you can like the adult education center here Gradido academy that you can mean where is such a thing already exists you can dock there and can get many on board, [00:26:33] and then you will see that a probably growing number of community project teams under the Gradido promoted and also we somewhere remunerated then will grow. [00:26:44] The journalist then really has to put his hand on the heart of the establishment [00:26:48] will your usual sources where he goes Pressesprecher Pressestellen factions there he is asked first of all if you there times what do you ask me there seriously so that is yes the first that one makes ridiculous, [00:27:03] The second thing is to keep quiet about it, and journalists are particularly important at this point, [00:27:09] exactly Bernd, so I think that's definitely an excellent impulse, we've already thought about such pilot projects several times and I think it's great that Dr Brückner has now brought this back into the conversation, [00:27:23] conversation because I think that the time is getting riper and that people are looking more and more for solutions. [00:27:33] In the past, journalists also used to say that at least we journalists used to say that only bad news is good news. [00:27:41] In the meantime we have so much bad news that I think that I can now also turn this paradigm around, that is, journalists also emphasize the, [00:27:52] can bring new perspectives and of course keep their neutrality so e.g. do something like this as a pilot project or I'm happy to do it, [00:28:05] different pilot projects that you can say one city is trying out the Gradido model and the other a [00:28:12] regional currency, although they are not so far away from each other, so there's a lot of common ground in the look what kind of experiences they have, [00:28:21] then at that time exactly sees so worse than it runs at the moment it can not come simply at all more I mean us's still relatively well like, [00:28:31] I think she also said earlier, well, at the moment there is still this wave, it will take a while until it really hits us because there is still support and then there is insolvency. [00:28:42] The obligation to declare insolvency has been postponed but it will be so hard for us now. [00:28:52] That the desire for a solution is getting bigger and bigger and I think we have a super time window now to do something like Gradido or other things, [00:29:02] So I think every economic model that is based on nature doesn't necessarily have to be called Gradido but in the end it's also like that in physics. [00:29:12] A thing only works if it conforms to the laws of nature. [00:29:17] That means also a new money and economic system can only work if it is made according to nature the old money at the Dodgers system was just pushed from above and has also therefore constantly these problems but this desire for solution, [00:29:32] people are just sick and tired of negative examples and negative news, [00:29:37] Listen, I read recently that according to a study in Austria, [00:29:42] a few months ago, 50% of the people were still about confident in the future, [00:29:49] and now otherwise only somehow just over 20% so they say the mood is sinking more and more and the more important it is and there I really see also a task of journalists, [00:29:59] to bring a new solution, so not just to gloss over it, so positive news doesn't mean to somehow gloss over what's not good or to calculate it, but to really keep an eye out for what possible solutions there are. [00:30:12] And just then look is there the possibility in the form of let's say a laboratory test it under a pilot project. [00:30:20] to try out something like that, I would like to accompany it scientifically, [00:30:27] and then really see what works, what doesn't work yet, where there might be a need for improvement. [00:30:35] So I think that's a great perspective. [00:30:39] So of course there have been highly renowned economists like I'll just call father and son Binswanger in Switzerland for quite some time. [00:30:49] Father deceased there is about. [00:30:52] Among other things, the question of the meaning of old money or the other way around, it needs this unconditional economic growth compulsion, the criticism of growth. [00:31:02] These sauces don't grow infinitely the resources are limited so according to bionics growth is also a balance because where something grows the water is not there somewhere else, [00:31:13] this can also be applied to money Binswanger is insanely far in the scientific comparison in the underbelly in the analysis of what already exists. [00:31:22] Irmi Seidl, a professor, is in the same vein. They are incredible pioneers with integrity who also go in and out of established politics and are heard. [00:31:35] I had, [00:31:36] that was in January I think this year a federal congress of the ÖDP moderate meeting on the topic of economic growth? [00:31:46] And there is a door opened from the few speakers were with the ÖDP what was only that was almost only the catalyst yes only the platform there I had already a list at once looked into corridors, [00:31:57] there was something at the back bright there I can only say there and there would also have to Gradido [00:32:05] place and a voice speech or let what is Edmond get into such high profile issues tied and politics free in the was not about politics or what we would now call party politics should it was simply times 1 to 8 perspectives. [00:32:21] I think totally great momentum. [00:32:25] What comes to my mind now is maybe because she said next to yes growth in the long run I can go or something like that. [00:32:35] In this topic we have researched very deeply so we see that nature is constantly growing, [00:32:41] and so I think that at the moment this post growth thought maybe, [00:32:46] is not yet deep enough, so of course we see clearly what is meant by that, but what nature is showing us is actually a permanent growth. [00:32:57] In connection with permanent transience, a cycle of becoming and passing away and that's the great thing about nature, [00:33:07] something new can emerge constantly so every spring we know how nature speaks or in summer autumn there's fruit. [00:33:16] And so that the whole earth now not before loud nature fruits now more and more phantasya there suffocate in the loud apples pears and pigs and I know everything. [00:33:25] We have the transience and this cycle of becoming and passing away which is also known to us as the proverbial cycle of life. [00:33:35] That's actually the magic word here so cycle of life cycle of becoming and passing away, [00:33:41] after that is also just rebuilt me so we have constant creation that would never work so if always only money per month is business [00:33:49] then it must be ephemeral again at that time not plan it would divide us just by involuntary transience just then because transience is natural law that is ultimately also. [00:34:01] What is mostly missing in the economic theory so far is the other side of growth, namely transience. [00:34:10] And I wouldn't say we're moving away from growth in the sense that we're not saying you can't grow anymore or anything like that. [00:34:19] but to find intelligent ways to grow and at the same time to integrate the decay into the decay, because then it will also be round, [00:34:28] and everything will run smoothly, whether it's the engine or whether it's the women who know the Kadi, who know their cycles, who are then much more connected. [00:34:41] Yes in the eastern cultures is just the cycle also much more also culturally anchored as best are at the more so that was thinking to go in one direction than is whole cyclical. [00:34:54] That gives us the opportunity to constantly renew and at the same time nature to warm because it's natural. [00:35:04] There is also a circular economy in other ways so this cradle to cradle principle for example is also very much going in that direction. [00:35:14] Here more about this cycle also transferred to the monetary system. [00:35:20] The closer we get to the fact that prosperity for all is possible and we stay in harmony with nature. [00:35:28] So just for understanding at Gradido. [00:35:32] Is it that in the year, so to speak, money is reduced or loses its value by 50%. [00:35:43] Right exactly so is doesn't lose the value of so right it's decreased. [00:35:49] Now that's relatively easy to do with an electronic currency it's just debited in the background today similarly via a negative interest rate just something. [00:35:58] With cash it gets a little bit more complex we have a solution for that as well. [00:36:03] That is a gardino keeps the value of a Gradido it is also important was yes the, [00:36:09] prices would otherwise have to change constantly if the money would lose value, [00:36:14] or where it loses value prices must be adjusted Gradido retains its value, [00:36:21] but the amount decreases by 50% a year comes back in at the same time through the monthly creation so everyone can use it from the child to the, [00:36:34] adult person bit to the old person in the form of an active basic income of an unconditional participation. [00:36:41] And at the same time there is still the second and third money creation so in the same amount for each country or for the public budget this money creation. [00:36:50] And for the balance and the environment, which is also important in today's world. [00:36:58] In the topic climate change topic environmental protection and so on there we need around that, [00:37:06] in a good way we need immense economic resources the earth can only heal itself so we can't heal the earth but we can do our part. [00:37:18] and for the economy it means we have one, [00:37:22] environmental fund when it's implemented globally in the amount of all the national budgets in the world put together from the biggest environmental drive that's ever been conceived. [00:37:32] I say that I mean already a bit sure that two things the biggest danger helsted is that you put away the big structures with interests is lay. [00:37:44] This little shimmering ship Gradido with the nice name you can also remember well and with the plausible reason thoughts. [00:37:53] which is very human it is immediately understandable and with the arguments that every day come new arguments for such a model yes. [00:38:03] That Gradido is hijacked. [00:38:06] That is the biggest danger it must be possible to find protective mechanisms patronages I say a patronage would be someone like Theo Waigel, [00:38:17] okay that's in the cure father of the CSU but a person with a great horizon Alois Glück. [00:38:25] CSU in deepest Bavaria one of the beacons of the caesura but incredibly open because even those elected by the people are looking for things that you can make sense and also explain quickly and if you don't have to invent it first and there's already something. [00:38:41] But that's just one side of the supporter creates in the lighthouse being of course there needs to be lighthouses in the economy. [00:38:49] Of course it needs lighthouses in public welfare the Barbara Stamm okay she has been president of the state parliament in Bavaria but she leads the Aktion Lebenshilfe. [00:38:57] Incredibly many in the political system are looking for such a solution and still sit on the boards of Caritas and similar in the VdK if they cooperatives. [00:39:10] So the search for lighthouses that get this it's yes absolutely complex one must also say and the quick director and the hurried reader says Gradido it's also again some bitcoin. [00:39:24] The scope to recognize goes best and I've learned in the local or in the regional area about lighthouses about people that is basically comparable to the people election campaign that goes not so self programs. [00:39:37] Märzheuser she knows that no one else but here it's about the credibility of protagonists of people exactly [00:39:46] At this point I wish this idea very quickly that it infects the right lighthouses that also classify and see that you can almost make David your own. [00:39:57] Again back to the media Doctor Brückner how strong. [00:40:05] Is the power of the media right now in the corona crisis sometimes you get the impression. [00:40:13] The media is the first power in the state. [00:40:16] Yes, the media is always the fastest and best source of information at the moment when it is a crisis and everybody is affected. [00:40:27] I don't want to make any comparisons with any people's receivers Nessim please never I didn't say that. [00:40:33] But this is important now also daily newspaper is important electronic media radio of course, they do not change the word ad in such a music station. [00:40:43] You have to see where the broadcasting times are and where the formats are, where I don't just get cabaret, so not just criticism in the form of brackets, but where I can find eight journalists who clearly say why a measure is too short-sighted, or why a measure is too short-sighted, [00:40:59] even with daily Corona coverage also perceives the reactions of the citizenry and that happens now with quite a few. [00:41:06] The first time the first months the Corona we have the government action there was yes every day ne new situation. [00:41:12] Until we have established all this, it took two months and now the reaction is coming. [00:41:17] and they are diverse and there are proposals and there are also charitable exchanges what is all to report that is also the strength and citizen controlled television. [00:41:30] I am a child of the private television that must be so we are now not public-legally obligated to the information if one would do it the but we are the citizen television yes [00:41:40] I was not yet funded by revenue or GEZ fees orange comparison flies so the need, [00:41:47] to inform quickly and wisely is greater than ever. [00:41:51] I also see besides the established media houses and the broadcasters and the private stations and the regional stations there are an incredible amount of journalistically made blocks, [00:42:02] there are also now new startups young journalists are offering their stories that are daily what to sell for any medium for small money so kind of direct sales artisanal things have become really big on the platforms three four five years ago anyway [00:42:17] and also already a list of goods is now quasi for small money current and professional quasi in direct sales bypassing is say the dairy. [00:42:26] So the dairy farmer can bring his finevare now also directly to the decrease so such models there are in the economy some the success models are the stars miss such a great success model [00:42:37] farmers they have built their dairy themselves has hit like a bomb and consumers are enthusiastic and even a bit more [00:42:44] and so kind of our house already all see or the platform we read or see very much. [00:42:51] And that's where we have the local journalists local and regional television stations wants grow beyond us right now in terms of usage. [00:42:59] Even last year we had 20% of market share at 6pm. [00:43:04] Everything that's on TV at 6pm of that we picked up 20% I'm going to go out on a limb and say right now we're just under 30, [00:43:14] with the nice advantage that the regional stations here at least in Bavaria but also elsewhere repeat their news ten times 20 times until the hour from a penetration of the very first quality, [00:43:26] and that's something you can't achieve online, so many daily newspapers also rely on this proximity to the regional stations. [00:43:32] and also on the trustworthiness trust on this factor. [00:43:37] But pleasingly the classic television still has this this old channel bonus so many regional televisions have been around for 30 years. [00:43:46] The people there like me old hands the viewers know me because they've been watching local television for 30 35 years and that's that trust is authenticity, [00:43:57] is also demanded of us because we are transparent by nature any local any citizen can check us immediately. [00:44:04] Local television because at worst or at best the readers know the citizens there much better than we do later because they live there because they are next door neighbors because they sit with the decide regulars table. [00:44:15] So there's the opportunity and also the responsibility it's on the local regional media now being asked of them and being appropriated to them. [00:44:25] It's huge they're growing right now in this crisis. [00:44:28] So quite evenly our thought in Gradido with lighthouses regional but evenly also those are there [00:44:36] are becoming stronger and stronger in the regional area yes in there is actually a striking difference between private and public broadcasters in their, [00:44:47] coverage when it comes to weighting. [00:44:51] I say no and I prove that with many experiences I was in Moscow in the other Eastern European countries in Brussels in Strasbourg where the following happens [00:45:04] there is some decision of relevance and then you have the club of correspondents. [00:45:11] They're all private public broadcasters, there's Deutschlandfunk, there's Deutsche Welle, there's Sat1, there's also the corresponding non-German broadcasters. [00:45:22] And then you sit behind to collect and the most blatant case say not so what do we write now? [00:45:27] How do you see it? How do you see it that the worst thing for a correspondent is to have a lonely view on this new international situation? [00:45:36] which is not covered or supported by the mass of correspondence in this field or from this reporting area say what did you report there you are the only one that is such a unique selling point of the shunned star [00:45:49] how are you especially the foreign correspondent. [00:45:52] And it feels that he you that you about Russia I am now no Russia friend yes but I was there and have it very marveled at the way what I have just seen or heard all 50 journalists also how different that arrived in Germany. [00:46:08] So that's actually the case that you really need lighthouses that have integrity then you see that at Gradido there might be the possibility, [00:46:20] that there could be even more diversity plurality in media coverage. [00:46:28] Yeah so am just that you brought into the world there's that automatically or say so then it's favored because yeah, [00:46:36] no one is forced to report the way we want their employer to report. [00:46:44] Then he always has the possibility to say yes well so I'm provided for in every case either by my basic income, [00:46:52] and slash or by my job or my client or my employer that can also be combined in any case. [00:47:01] If I have then just introduced about is no more existential fear it can force me so no one more and it is I think just for yoga lists quite important. [00:47:12] You can't force a journalist to say or write something against his inner conviction. [00:47:21] Which you might do because that's what his employer wants him to do as well as Brückner was one last question. [00:47:31] What do you think. [00:47:33] What will the media landscape look like in a year of course on the premise that the Corona crisis continues, [00:47:44] unfortunately the measures continue the restrictions the limitations on all of us [00:47:50] and of course for the journalists what do you think you can look into the crystal ball yes yes. [00:48:00] So it's actually the case that we have really analyzed these topics very intensively in the Press Club after which at the German Academy for Television. [00:48:10] Public television is facing a reform backlog. [00:48:15] And one can hope that more and more female directors will take up the cause and bring in a new culture. [00:48:22] But the facts remain we have an insanely battered funding situation of at the public service system, [00:48:28] there are more and more respected voices questioning the constitutional mandate of the public broadcasting system in the first place. [00:48:36] That was born once when television licenses were rare and expensive that one wanted to keep in the public hand in the painting not let any animals over it. [00:48:47] So these developments are there at the same time big industrial companies are pushing for their own platforms insane amount of money is put into new fancy platforms Vienna Netflix like Magenta like Amazon. [00:49:02] I was recently invited to the regulars' table of Amazon Resi why do you invite me. [00:49:08] Yes we are looking for people who are connected to the scene that delivers local content so these new players that don't pay taxes here in our country as you know, [00:49:18] but are very highly trafficked they are snacking on local or anything table content, [00:49:25] the market is changing a lot and already and now I come to a very interesting vision also born at the Film University Babelsberg and the German Academy for Television the foundation television. [00:49:38] Let you never already underexposed topics so away from all the one must not squint there after quota one must not give Tatorte probably more and more. [00:49:48] Commissioners themselves should become the perpetrator then with you this blood is exhausted there are yes more and more difficult scripts that hanker for attention. [00:49:57] So foundation television there is the question yes who are your foundations and good woman where does the money come from extreme caution there too. [00:50:05] Without a very broad and smart citizen participation and that is also a participation and also has influence voice or program advisory boards these. [00:50:14] This word is so blurry because program councils except for the lunch once a year were usually nothing. [00:50:21] Gotta be gentle to the point yes. [00:50:24] Foundation television the citizens have to take much more of the public welfare and prophylaxis into their own hands. [00:50:32] And there we are again very strongly with the Gradido thought or with the thought of citizen television. [00:50:40] It's not just publishers who have bought radio stations or acquired licenses. [00:50:48] There are also financially poor but very involved citizen groups that like to tame issues in the local area that are underexposed to integration. [00:50:57] Issues children's hospices so things that are incredibly important how do we go around with the deserving old people civic cafe is repair cafes swap meets. [00:51:08] energy supply cogeneration plants in the neighborhood fractional share communities wage rate they don't even get to listen on public television in 20 years. [00:51:18] These are exactly the structures that the citizens now have to take into their own hands. [00:51:23] On the one hand because there is no alternative, on the other hand because we see for ourselves. [00:51:29] That we need a true a more direct a citizen participation also in the media is the one if you are lucky you will be printed. [00:51:38] The clock of communication together in a room unique we are protected in a city wall and communicate everyone knows what the other said everyone knows who said it. [00:51:49] Everybody speaks he has the chance to hear or counter speech of that yes the mass media our public our private national, [00:51:57] miles away there is nothing with dialogue that is a loudspeaker the listener hears and is silent the reader reads and is silent the very sees and maybe he is happy and switches on again. [00:52:07] But a dialogic form of communication as it is in the clock term urgent that is no longer given. [00:52:14] And just with the diversification of sources to each view there's yes already in the crowd there's yes already publication forms and chat groups. [00:52:24] All the stronger is that I the citizen now interferes he now sends back. [00:52:30] Until now it takes 2 years or 5 years but it's already happening now we are in the middle of this process and the disappearance of the quota ProSieben is now already satisfied if the quota is now and then double-digit a one had already completely different goals also at RTL. [00:52:46] You will see why you have to bake smaller rolls. [00:52:49] And then the old question will have to be redefined why doesn't this worm taste good to the fish anymore the worm shouldn't taste good to the angler but to the fisherman, [00:52:59] the fish is a promo by Helmut Thoma the founder the very successful founder of RTL in the early years. [00:53:07] So the worms don't taste us anymore in German said but there they have. [00:53:13] At the end of our podcast but wonderfully bridged to the natural economy of life. [00:53:23] And man is nature. [00:53:27] Nature doesn't need us but we need nature. Many thanks to Doctor Uwe Brückner. [00:53:37] Yes, what would our country be without freedom of the press and journalists who courageously act as guardians of democracy. [00:53:47] Doing your job thank you very much from both of us it was an honor thank you very much also you helsted and you Mr. Märzheuser I thank you also. [00:53:57] More information about Gradido the natural economy of life on Gradido. Net. [00:54:05] I'll see you soon for the next podcast greetings Michael and. [00:54:12] Music.